Chili comes in many varieties...about as diverse as the ethnic mixes of the regions that made each style famous. One of the oldest and most unusual varieties is that which is known as "Green Bay" Chili or "Chili John" chili. It predates the similar Cincinnati 5-way by a number of years and traces back to Lithuanian immigrant "Chili" John Isaac, who opened a restaurant in 1913 down by the docks of Green Bay, WI, hanging a simple sign out front that said, "Chili".
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| "Chili" John Isaac |
Chili John's at one time had 3 locations...Green Bay, Beaver Dam, WI, and Burbank, CA. All three are still in business, though not affiliated, and only the Green Bay one still serves the completely authentic John Isaac recipe. (UPDATE: As of 2024, there is no longer a Chili Johns in Green Bay, nor do they sell the sauce). John Madden, legendary NFL coach and broadcaster, never missed a visit to Chili John's when he covered a Green Bay Packers game. Fran Tarkenton also was known to have a bowl before playing the Packers at home.
So where does "Real Chili" come into the story?
According to the Real Chili website, Milwaukee's infamous chili restaurant was started by Francis Honish in 1931. What the website doesn't tell you is that Francis Honish was a former cook at Chili John's in Green Bay. Hmmm. There was actually a bit of bad blood and a lawsuit or two over the issue way back when, but time seems to have quelled the implications of chili-theft. Both chilis are very, very similar in style and taste. Patrons today probably don't care about the politics involved, they're just glad that they can get a bowl of Green Bay Chili in Milwaukee or Green Bay!
I've eaten at Real Chili and all three of the no-longer-related Chili John's restaurants and no matter what variation you get, it's all good! This is a close rendition of the original Chili John's chili, though the real recipe is still a secret.
(2024 update: So secret that, of the dozen or so "Chili John" recipes on the Internet, NONE of them are 100 percent correct. This is as close as I have come. If anyone out there *has* the real recipe and cares to share it -- particularly now that in 2024, Green Bay's Chili Johns is no more, please do so!
Until that day, which may never come, I give you this: )
You will need for the Meat Sauce:
1/2 lb. Beef Suet, rendered
2 medium onions, finely chopped
2 lbs hamburger browned
1 oz. unsweetened Baker's chocolate
3 T chili powder
1 T cayenne pepper (or less if you don't like it hot)
1.5 T garlic powder
1 T cumin
1 T paprika
1 bay leaf
3 tablespoons cider vinegar
3-4 chili peppers, ground finely
salt to taste
pepper to taste
2 T Johnny's French Dip Au Jus (comes in a little jug)
(10/08/2024 -updated - nutmeg, clove and allspice removed after several of those familiar with the real Chili John recipe said to omit them, some other amounts and ingredients changed. It's as close as you'll get without the actual recipe!)
Render the suet in a large pan, remove whatever is left and cook onions until tender. Add the meat and cook, breaking it up with a wooden spoon. When meat is browned, add spices, chocolate, broth, and vinegar, stirring to mix well. Bring to a boil, then turn heat to low and simmer uncovered for 1½ hours. It should start to thicken. It is best if refrigerated overnight and reheated the following day.
To serve, you will need:Spaghetti noodles
Shredded cheddar cheese
Sour cream
Vinegar (I like British Malt Vinegar)
Chopped onions
Warmed kidney beans or chili beans
Franks Red Hot
Oyster crackers
Pickled jalapeno slices
Spoon some cooked spaghetti noodles into a bowl, spoon generous portion of meat sauce on top of that, with some beans, a handful of oyster crackers, and a dash of vinegar. That's your basic Green Bay Chili. In addition, you can add any combination of the above toppings to complete your Green Bay Chili experience. Mmmm...hot, greasy, yummy Green Bay Chili!
Chili johns definitely does not have nutmeg or ground clove. I would guess the chocolate isn't in there either. That sounds like Cincinnati chili
ReplyDeleteNo allspice either.
DeleteWell, no one actually knows what's in "Chili John's" chili. Lots of people claim to, but I've tried those recipes and they're way off. The point is to get it to taste like Chili John's and this is darn close. The ingredients give a subtle blend...it's not like you taste clove like you do in a spiced ham.
ReplyDeleteIf you happened to have wrangled the real Chili John's recipe out of the place, I'm all ears!
My late brother-in-law in GB did legal work for chili johns. They gave him the recipe in payment. Very close to this but no nutmeg allspice or cloves.
ReplyDeleteAny chance we can wrangle it out of you, especially since the restaurant now appears to be closed for good?
DeleteSad it's closed. Our recipe is as above but without nutmeg allspice and cloves. 2 cups water instead of broth and malt vinegar. I always add an extra half ounce chocolate. The best chili!
DeleteChili John Isaac is my great great grandfather, I'm the son of Sue Nowak Haase, his grand daughter..my gramma was Elizabeth Isaac Nowak.
ReplyDeleteOur family was also of Lithuanian descent and settled in Krakow, WIsconsin. We had been told that my great-grandfather’s family helped to finance the opening of the first Chili John’s. Message me and let me know if you retain any of the Isaac family history. Thanks.
DeleteMy grandmother is also Elizabeth Isaac Nowak who was the daughter of Chili John Issac. Elizabeth's daughter Janice was my mother. I am now in my 60's and gramma died at 99 several years ago. I was very close to her in my 20's and love to cook and always loved Chili John's chili. After making several attempts to get as close as I could to the family recipe and bringing them over to gramma to try, In my mid-twenties she went upstairs and brought down the hand-written recipe that Ernie had written. He was the owner of the restaurant in Burbank, CA. The family recipe is truly a secret as it was always made in the home of the few family members that ran the restaurant and then brought in to be served, so none of the workers ever had access to it. Although, as in the case where my grandmother shared it with me, perhaps her sister Dorothy or Lillian who both ran the restaurant could have had someone very close that they trusted with not letting it out of the family. I promised her that 40 years ago and have not broken my promise. If I had a nickel for every time someone said they had the recipe because so-and-so was a friend of theirs and worked at the restaurant, I could have retired by now... all I have to do is ask a question or two about it, and nope, not the recipe. Also the person who commented that their brother in law did legal work for Chili John's and got the recipe as payment doesn't have the recipe right either, as they said it's real close to the Milwaukee's Real Chili recipe minus the allspice, nutmeg and clove. The rest isn't even close. I recently made a 15 pound batch (a shrunken size of the original batches made in the owners' "chili kitchen") and love it in it's native form on top of beans and spaghetti, but use it to add spunk to a bowl of chili beans, or drizzle it over a grilled cheese sandwich. Hmm... that got me thinking about supper... gotta go.
DeleteOh and by the way... (me again: the LW above, grandson of Elizabeth, son of Janice)... The article writer states "there were three Chili John's locations; Green Bay, Beaver Dam and Burbank, CA" and goes on to say "they're not affiliated and only the Green Bay one has the original John Isaac recipe". This is not accurate. The Beaver Dam restaurant is no way affiliated with the John Isaac family, or the family recipe. The Burbank CA location was opened by John Isaac's son Ernie and has served and still serves the one and only family recipe that is the same as what was always served in Green Bay. Also, some believe that there were three variations of the meat sauce: Mild, Medium and Hot. Not so, the three were only differentiated by how much of the meat sauce was in the bowl. Just an FYI.
DeleteAlways have and always will love chili John's chili wish I could make it the same as was but I have doubts just because just because.
ReplyDeleteGreen Bay native delighted to find this recipe! Making it today!
ReplyDeleteThanks! Try leaving out the nutmeg, allspice and cloves, or go very very light on them.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, it's not exact. I wish that I had the exact recipe, but those that have it don't give it out.
ReplyDeleteI tried this, but without the chocolate, all-spice or ground clove. Was not even sort-of close. I knew before I tasted it because it was brown, vs. the real deal, which is a very dark mahogany color. But given the authors hard work, I’m compelled to try it again and follow the recipe precisely. We’ll see. More to come….
ReplyDeleteMy name is Mark and I grew up in Green Bay, eating at Chili John’s once or twice a month for decades, beginning at their downtown location, then on Military Avenue, and even more recently, near the airport. I made the chili listed on this blog twice. The first time deviating somewhat, the second time precisely as described. In my humble opinion, this recipe is in no way a reasonable facsimile of Chili John’s Green Bay Chili. But I’ll tell you what is: Google Badger Foodservice on Cedar Street in Green Bay. They offer a mix named “A Bowl of Red, Original Texas Style”. Directions call for ground suet, lean ground round or chuck, and the mix. That’s it. Follow directions carefully, but the directions understate one key element: while browning the meat in the melted fat, use a zig-zag style potato masher and almost constantly continue mincing the meat into the bottom of your cast iron Dutch oven to a fine-grind consistency. Follow directions carefully as to cooling and packing into freezer containers. It is, without question, the closest thing to the real deal I have yet discovered. And I’ve tinkered with various recipes for this stuff for decades too. Bon Appetite, Studhorse!
ReplyDeleteThis stuff?
Deletehttps://www.soupsonline.com/p-1138-a-bowl-of-red-chili-mix-1-lb.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAjwm4ukBhAuEiwA0zQxk_TEoCI498BMt30PwIuF3uso1T0poaJKJzjUD3XgG_YPzfBMmhyxnRoCKuEQAvD_BwE
Thanks, I was never 100 percent sure on Beaver Dam. Burbank's chili was a little different than Green Bay's in 1999 when I had them one day apart.
ReplyDelete